No one has done more damage than Vincent K McMahon. However, there would be no Vincent K McMahon without Jack Pferer planting the seeds that lead to him, without Jack Pferer nearly destroying the New York and Chicago territories with his bullshit. Jack, for all of his big talk, only targeted one territory out of malice, however. McMahon went after 41! Even then, it can't be just the bad actors. For all the talk of defending the business the territorial promoters did a piss poor job of it when it was time to literally defend their businesses from McMahon. But in a criminal case "they left the vault open" doesn't hold up as a valid defense. Bill Watts could have done with Vince Junior did, Vincent Sr. could have done what Vince Junior did, but they didn't.
Is it me or do wrestlers not protect finishers any more?!? For example a super kick or a DDT is a very effective move. But I don’t see why I rustler house to do it 20 times in one Match. It makes it seem like the wrestlers that Shawn Michaels or Jake the snake we’re just not good wrestlers and it does a lot of damage to wrestlers now because if you do 20 super kicks and I do one it doesn’t seem believable that a guy would is the match because of my one super kick
The problem is Vince exposed the business in court because he didn’t want to pay the athletic commission in nyc, you could still get away with kayfab in the 90s, that and scripting and no places wrestlers can work off camera to get seasoned
For me Vince killed the secrecy wrestling had. When he came out on national tv and told us it was a predetermine show. Not a sport with some entertaiment but a physical show. I compare it with a magician letting us know the magic is not real. I think wrestling is not protected anymore like it was years ago. I would told it this way is a sport show but the rivalries are real.
times change, and entertainment evolves, it's the only constant. My issue is the core of wrestling is lost, it was always a story no matter what. It seems lost today, mainly in AEW and to a much lesser extent in WWE. Wrestlers can do that "flippy stuff" and high spots, but if there's no story I don't care. Mick Foley- got tossed off a cage and people were talking. People stayed invested because of Mick Foley's character, not because he got thrown off a cage.
Something a lot of people don't seem to realise (or don't want to) is that wrestling itself as a format is dying.
Information leaks online, people are less gullible, less violent also, more politically correct than last decades.
Wrestling needs that edge of the past eras, but that stuff just can't fly nowadays however It's just not compelling with skinny or small guys, family friendly gimmicks, cringe scripts, etc
Of course it will continue to exist and be profitable enough to continue as many other things but it's natural it got outdated, substituted for other better entertainment, etc
Same thing that happened to rock music, western movies, written poetry…idk stuff can only be cool and edgy for a certain time before it gets taken over by something cooler.
No matter how much of a good poet you are or how well your poems rhyme you'll never gonna outdraw mainstream rappers. Your style of written poetry was lit for 1800's but nowadays nobody cares. Same thing with wrestling it's just not a credible big deal anymore even if it was well done.
The fans (lunatics) started running the asylum. It is now lets pretend rather then lets make it look as real as possible and look like it makes sense. It wasn't easy to get into wrestling once upon a time and was guarded carefully by the people inside but now it is a free for all.
It has nothing to do with the wrestlers or promoters. It has everything to do with social media and marks. Plain and simple. Wrestling rumors and news is more important than the show itself.
Vince, everyone from peoples like Tony to their fanbase to "fantasy booking" marks to smarks. Everything bad is Vince faults whether is he involved or not
This reminds me… It's been a long damn time since we've heard Jim cut a promo- I mean advertisement, for Codeacademy! Did he succeed in scaring them off?
In the end, it's all down to the promoter. They hire the wrestlers they want & dictate what type of matches happen. If you don't want 150 lb guys doing double somersaults or kicking out of 5 consecutive finishers -either chew out the offender, or fire them if it's happened multiple times. If they don't know any better, teach them. That's what developmental territories are supposed to do, same with the performance centre itself. But even without that, there have always been vets on hand to teach the new guys.
The problem is the promoters. Because there are millions of pathetic looking guys in the world who can't wrestle but they fancy themselves as a comedian but all they can do is unfunny comedy, but it's Tony Khan who puts one of these unfunny comedians, Orange Cassidy on TV every week. So the problem, really, is Tony. If it wasn't for Tony I never would have seen that idiot with his hands in his pockets trying to find his limp dick during what was supposed to be a wrestling match. Oh the hilarity of a dumbass with his hands in his pockets.
Could it also be argued that the later 90s and early 2ks was so good and stars were so big in both WWE and WCW that to attempt to follow that act was always mission impossible ?.
Further with the internet and death of Kay fabe the whole style of wrestling has changed drastically….to where as it's put now its more what moves you can perform that's ohhh ahhhhh as opposed to being able to make people believe what your doing is real
Wrestlers and promotions are products of the times
There's no place for glass in wrestling. Can you imagine if Dana White had Connor and Nate fight in glass? Could you imagine what would happen to the guy who suggested that to Dana? 🤣
I very much disagree. It is the trainers. They're teaching them to wrestle how they wrestle. Sure, you can't blame the trainers for everything they do, but you can blame them for at least 90% of it. For example, Jim hates the way Orange hits the ropes. It's the trainers fault whether he taught Orange that or not. Why? Because even if the trainer didn't teach him that, he also didn't teach him not to do it. He just let Orange do it that way.
10% thumbnail 20% talk about the actual topic 9000% sponsor ad
and then a further breakdown of the sponsor ad
10% info about actual product or sponsor 70% jim cornette talking about how dangerous this product can be or how shady the sponsor is 20% brian pretending to protect the sponsor or their product
Wrestling is doing awful? Says who? Indie wrestling promotions are making bank, majors are doing record number of revenue (even inflation adjustments factored in), television rankings are at an all time high where even in the Monday Night Wars wrestling wasn't ranking top 3 week in and week out. We have AEW & WWE ranking #2 and #1 for the night. That is unheard of from years back
The internet ruined everything
It seems like everything went to crap around 2010
No one has done more damage than Vincent K McMahon. However, there would be no Vincent K McMahon without Jack Pferer planting the seeds that lead to him, without Jack Pferer nearly destroying the New York and Chicago territories with his bullshit. Jack, for all of his big talk, only targeted one territory out of malice, however. McMahon went after 41! Even then, it can't be just the bad actors. For all the talk of defending the business the territorial promoters did a piss poor job of it when it was time to literally defend their businesses from McMahon. But in a criminal case "they left the vault open" doesn't hold up as a valid defense. Bill Watts could have done with Vince Junior did, Vincent Sr. could have done what Vince Junior did, but they didn't.
Vince McMahon. 75% of blame. Everyone else and everything since early 90s take the rest.
Is it me or do wrestlers not protect finishers any more?!? For example a super kick or a DDT is a very effective move. But I don’t see why I rustler house to do it 20 times in one Match. It makes it seem like the wrestlers that Shawn Michaels or Jake the snake we’re just not good wrestlers and it does a lot of damage to wrestlers now because if you do 20 super kicks and I do one it doesn’t seem believable that a guy would is the match because of my one super kick
“I liked this business a lot more when the marks were out front in the seats.”
And not being able to cut promos without a script
The problem is Vince exposed the business in court because he didn’t want to pay the athletic commission in nyc, you could still get away with kayfab in the 90s, that and scripting and no places wrestlers can work off camera to get seasoned
R.I.P. Terry Funk and 5 years in the car with you
Fans. The fans are to blame for the current state of wrestling.
The artwork 😂 buffed corny looks amazing.
Without Vince ppl wouldn’t know you on a mass scale and most wrestlers wouldn’t be wealthy or famous
Change is inevitable, j don’t even think teens of the 90s or today could stomach wrestling in the 60s and 70s
For me Vince killed the secrecy wrestling had. When he came out on national tv and told us it was a predetermine show. Not a sport with some entertaiment but a physical show. I compare it with a magician letting us know the magic is not real. I think wrestling is not protected anymore like it was years ago. I would told it this way is a sport show but the rivalries are real.
times change, and entertainment evolves, it's the only constant. My issue is the core of wrestling is lost, it was always a story no matter what. It seems lost today, mainly in AEW and to a much lesser extent in WWE.
Wrestlers can do that "flippy stuff" and high spots, but if there's no story I don't care.
Mick Foley- got tossed off a cage and people were talking. People stayed invested because of Mick Foley's character, not because he got thrown off a cage.
Something a lot of people don't seem to realise (or don't want to) is that wrestling itself as a format is dying.
Information leaks online, people are less gullible, less violent also, more politically correct than last decades.
Wrestling needs that edge of the past eras, but that stuff just can't fly nowadays however It's just not compelling with skinny or small guys, family friendly gimmicks, cringe scripts, etc
Of course it will continue to exist and be profitable enough to continue as many other things but it's natural it got outdated, substituted for other better entertainment, etc
Same thing that happened to rock music, western movies, written poetry…idk stuff can only be cool and edgy for a certain time before it gets taken over by something cooler.
No matter how much of a good poet you are or how well your poems rhyme you'll never gonna outdraw mainstream rappers. Your style of written poetry was lit for 1800's but nowadays nobody cares. Same thing with wrestling it's just not a credible big deal anymore even if it was well done.
4 mins of answering the question and then 7 mins of advertisement
3:18 R.I.P. Terry Funk
Jim wether you like it or not wrestling has to evolve over time.
Vince McMahon just sitting there like Harvey Keitel is hilarious, Lol 🙂
Everything changes over time one way or another. We can love it or hate it, but as the man said, that's life.
The fans (lunatics) started running the asylum. It is now lets pretend rather then lets make it look as real as possible and look like it makes sense. It wasn't easy to get into wrestling once upon a time and was guarded carefully by the people inside but now it is a free for all.
It has nothing to do with the wrestlers or promoters. It has everything to do with social media and marks. Plain and simple. Wrestling rumors and news is more important than the show itself.
Vince, everyone from peoples like Tony to their fanbase to "fantasy booking" marks to smarks. Everything bad is Vince faults whether is he involved or not
As much as I love them talking about different wrestling topics I love when they both go on a tangent when it comes to their sponsors
2:46 Which reminds me of the most popular pro wrestler of all time, Hulk Hogan, a better bodybuilder and musician than a technical wrestler.
At the end of the day its the promoter. They have the power to tell their talent what and what not to do.
11 minutes of video. 4 minutes was discussion and 7 was a plug for a sponsor…
I know you guys make the ads more entertaining than most, but come on guys. That's fucking ridiculous.
This reminds me… It's been a long damn time since we've heard Jim cut a promo- I mean advertisement, for Codeacademy! Did he succeed in scaring them off?
All this was true until the megastar came — making us all feel the kaborka?
There’s blame on both sides. If anyone can be a promoter or a wrestler, then the product will be hard for fans to take in.
In the end, it's all down to the promoter. They hire the wrestlers they want & dictate what type of matches happen. If you don't want 150 lb guys doing double somersaults or kicking out of 5 consecutive finishers -either chew out the offender, or fire them if it's happened multiple times. If they don't know any better, teach them. That's what developmental territories are supposed to do, same with the performance centre itself. But even without that, there have always been vets on hand to teach the new guys.
I love the podcast but they really gotta stop posting clips that are 95% ads lol.
Rodney Dangerfield reference!!
Internet
THE FANS are the #1 problem with modern wrestling. As soon as they were let in behind the scenes, wrestling became what it is now. 100%
The problem is the promoters. Because there are millions of pathetic looking guys in the world who can't wrestle but they fancy themselves as a comedian but all they can do is unfunny comedy, but it's Tony Khan who puts one of these unfunny comedians, Orange Cassidy on TV every week. So the problem, really, is Tony. If it wasn't for Tony I never would have seen that idiot with his hands in his pockets trying to find his limp dick during what was supposed to be a wrestling match. Oh the hilarity of a dumbass with his hands in his pockets.
Could it also be argued that the later 90s and early 2ks was so good and stars were so big in both WWE and WCW that to attempt to follow that act was always mission impossible ?.
Further with the internet and death of Kay fabe the whole style of wrestling has changed drastically….to where as it's put now its more what moves you can perform that's ohhh ahhhhh as opposed to being able to make people believe what your doing is real
Wrestlers and promotions are products of the times
In short and my opinion INTERNET KILLED WRESTLING
There's no place for glass in wrestling. Can you imagine if Dana White had Connor and Nate fight in glass? Could you imagine what would happen to the guy who suggested that to Dana? 🤣
I very much disagree. It is the trainers. They're teaching them to wrestle how they wrestle. Sure, you can't blame the trainers for everything they do, but you can blame them for at least 90% of it. For example, Jim hates the way Orange hits the ropes. It's the trainers fault whether he taught Orange that or not. Why? Because even if the trainer didn't teach him that, he also didn't teach him not to do it. He just let Orange do it that way.
breakdown of a typical jim cornette video
10% thumbnail
20% talk about the actual topic
9000% sponsor ad
and then a further breakdown of the sponsor ad
10% info about actual product or sponsor
70% jim cornette talking about how dangerous this product can be or how shady the sponsor is
20% brian pretending to protect the sponsor or their product
Wrestling is doing awful? Says who? Indie wrestling promotions are making bank, majors are doing record number of revenue (even inflation adjustments factored in), television rankings are at an all time high where even in the Monday Night Wars wrestling wasn't ranking top 3 week in and week out. We have AEW & WWE ranking #2 and #1 for the night. That is unheard of from years back
Indie wrestling companies
Peoples low standards are to blame